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"Designing purposeful experiences beyond the bike ride with Claire Baines"

Ros: If you've ever thought of hosting a group trip, leading a retreat or creating more impact through your travel business, today's guest is going to inspire you in the most unexpected way. Claire Baines isn't a Travel Advisor, though she may run some of the different things around the role that she actually undertakes that you will be able to resonate with. She is the CEO behind one of the most impactful experience based charities that I have ever come across in my life. She designs and manages events that create life changing memories. She supports communities in need. She has a huge heart, and she also keeps people coming back year after year after year. She does all of this, not only with a huge heart, but with strategy and a CEO mindset that we can all learn from. So welcome to the Travel Agent Achievers podcast Claire Baines.

Claire: Thank you for having me.

Ros: I am so thrilled that you are here, because we often hear from Pete and the story behind Hands Across the Water and how it all came about, and his vision, and he has one of the biggest hearts and minds people that I know in the business sector, but also just in life. But to be able to get your perspective is really interesting as well. And one thing I heard you say before we even started recording this episode together was, oh my gosh, I can't believe I've got to go. You know, after Pete and he's he's a professional speaker, but on this podcast, this is all about real and life and how as business owners, we do fall over, but we pick ourselves up and we dust ourselves off and we just get on with it. Resilience is a very big thing as a business owner.

Claire: Yes, it is.

Ros: So as the CEO behind Hands Across the Water, I would love for you just to share a little bit about your business background before Hands. That's all right, Emma, what you did so that we can then lead into what you're doing now?

Claire: Yeah, sure. So I guess my background started in events, of all places. Love events, and I was working for a magazine company. Started, started out as a journalist want to be, and ended up in in a magazine company, thinking that I made it big and found myself running events, and very quickly took a career path change and went on to run corporate events for 15 years, and it was I just loved everything about creating those experiences for people in that corporate world, the strength, sitting back and just watching people experience the light, I just, I love it. Yeah, absolutely love events. So, you know, and from the magazine company, I ended up running the events and sponsorship area for REA group. So that saw me running huge international programs for real estate agents. And it was a very rewarding but also shone a bit of a light on, I guess, my values and and what I was looking for in events, and that's when Hands came along.

Ros: Yeah, so how, how did Hands Across the Water? And you know, your experience with hands evolve?

Claire: So I saw Peter speak at a conference. Well, I first saw him in 2006 and it wasn't until 2010 that I saw him. I think I'd seen him speak maybe three or four times. And there was something in me at that 2010 conference, and I went, I think it's my time. I think it's my time to say yes to this bike ride. It's I could ride 800 kilometers. I could raise $10,000. Oh, look, I was a sporting girl growing up, so I knew that I with a bit of training, I knew that I could do it.
It was probably the fundraising that was the biggest thing that dawned to me the most.

Ros: Even though you worked in sponsorship and events?

Claire: Yeah. Well, I think that personal fundraising angle, I guess, scared me, and the number around it, it was $10,000 you know, I'd always like, I love, I loved running, you know, biggest morning teas and Girls Night In and, you know, you'd raise $1,000 here and there, but 10,000 just felt like a lot. So I went, Yeah, let's do this. Let's sign up. So I did my first bike ride in 2011 and that's, that's where I met Pete.

Ros: How many rides have you done now?

Claire: I think it's around the 40. It's around 40.

Ros: Would you consider yourself a bike rider now?

Claire: I would, yes.

Ros: And you have transitioned to an E bike, yet?

Claire: I actually on the last ride I am. I had to go on the E bike because I figured, how am I supposed to sell these if I don't know how they work?

Ros: Yes.

Claire: That was my that was my line anyway, but, but no, look as as a as someone who loves cycling. I think an E bike takes a little bit of pressure, little bit of pressure off those who are a bit worried.

Ros: Yes.

Claire: You can still work hard on them, so you can still pedal and feel like you get to the end of the day, and then you pretty tuck it out. And yeah, they don't, you know, they've got this real
I guess people who don't run me bike think that the ear bikes are like a motorbike, but they're not. It just takes a little bit of that pressure off.

Ros: They are very heavy.. Apparently, when the battery run.

Claire: They are very heavy. They are very heavy. And when someone belts it, the battery runs out pretty quickly.

Ros: Oh, dear. So I understand as a bike rider myself, and having done one of the Hands Across the Water rides prior to doing that, though, I cycled myself across Vietnam and Cambodia I think twice. Yeah, don't know why. No, I know why I went back for the second time. I just thought it was so awesome, the freedom and the the exhilaration of just being out on the open road and the uncertainty of what could happen and but I found that I needed, as a bike rider, a destination to get to. So I will ride to breakfast. I will ride to go to the cafe. Yep, give me the 20 Ks, and I will get there. And I can enjoy that experience, the Hands Across the Water experiences. I do want to dive into those but there are essentially 100 kilometers a day. Yes, yeah. So do you find that riding 20 kilometers and having a break is a good thing?

Claire: I think it's great. I think it's a great thing. So pineapple and some food along the way, absolutely gets into nursing.

Ros: All right, so coming back to Hands Across the Water and your experience. So having ridden a couple of times raising the money for the charity and achieving the $10,000 yourself, you're now the CEO. How did that come about?

Claire: I married him to the charity.

Ros: I love it. True. Love.

Claire: Yes, no. So I, I was still working in corporate when I met Pete and when I did my first ride, and it was probably about four years in. So 2015 I, I was really passionate about the work that we were doing through Hands. And I was still like I was doing the bike rides, I was volunteering on the event, so I was just helping where I could, while still trying to do a full time job. And you know, I had these moments during the programs that Pete and I were running together where it just felt like the experiences we were creating were far had far greater impact than those that I was doing. You know, back in my rea corporate days, you know, I was pulling together some incredible programs, but, you know, my customers and the people that were walking away from those programs, I mean, their lives weren't impacted because we took them to Google or yeah, you know, we gave them a really lovely bottle of wine at dinner. That's pretty cool, though it is pretty cool. But when you're, when you've got a group of, you know, 20 ordinary people on a social bench program, and you're herding pigs into pig pens that you've built, and you're, you know, dancing crazy with the kids up at home hug and seeing the laughs and the smiles like there's something about that that creates this, this experience that you'll talk about for a long time. And it's it is life changing. And so, you know, I had this kind of epiphany where I went, I want to be doing more of that. That I want to have that impact on people, not just the delivering wow moments, and people walk away and go, Yeah, that was great. Yeah. It was no that was life changing, and that's what I wanted to move into. So that was my journey into Hands. Was was running their events and helping with the bike rides. So helping to, you know, work with our Philippines team to develop those bike rides. And then fast forward a few years, very quickly, I started to pick up more and more things within Hands from a marketing perspective and financials. So just all the little things started to add to my to do list, and hence transitioning into CEO.

Ros: Yeah, which, congratulations, very big, big role to have. Yeah. And do you ever feel the weight of the world on your shoulders with people you know wanting to support their charity in different ways, or you know that you are potentially responsible for bringing in $2 million a year that that Pete has spoken to us about to actually keep the charity sustainable and keep the homes open and support those kids. Is, do you ever feel any pressure around that as the CEO?

Claire: All the time, and and, you know, I think, like as a husband and wife in in business together, you know, it's, it's, it's dinner table conversation that's, you know, you don't, you don't pack down your computer at five o'clock in the afternoon. You're sitting there on a weekend talking about, you know, how to create bright futures for our kids.

You know, I think back to COVID, and Friday the 13th, you know, I was in Thailand leading a bike ride, and Pete was back home getting all these phone calls from business blueprint, Nata, all of these corporates saying we're pulling we're pulling out our programs. And I flew back into Australia two days later, and we just had to bunk down and and figure out, oh gosh, how are we going to get through this? Yeah, how do we get through the next six months? How do we get through the next we didn't know that it was going to be another two, three years before we come through that. So, you know, I think, and I've probably digressed a little bit, but, you know, I think it's the weight of the world was really felt during that time, and now we're through that. We're on the other side of that. You're always going to have challenges. 100% it's always going to be the weight of, you know, the kids coming into our homes. How long can we sustain that? And what does our future look like for those kids.

Ros: Hearing you say that you were in Thailand when the borders were closing in Australia and around the world and the impact, and it felt like it was happening in slow motion. You were there. I remember being here in Australia and hearing the news that we had 24,48 hours and calling clients who were just about to hit the ski slopes in Japan. And I called them, and I said, I need you to get to Tokyo now, by the time you get there in four hours time, I will have you on a flight tonight to get back into Australia. Wow. But also on the other side I was I drove straight to Sydney. I live in Port Macquarie, and I drove straight to Sydney to be in the Business Blueprint office, yeah? Because not only was I the Travel Advisor shopping, get to Thailand for the Hands across the water bike ride, yeah. But following straight after that, I then had 300 people who would you to fly out to Fiji for an international retreat, and so to be on the ground in Sydney with Dale and the team and coordinate? What were we going to do from a business perspective, but also from a delegates and a member perspective, and how are we going to salvage different things. How can we still support and, you know, do what we can to keep a lot of places going?

Claire: Yeah.

Ros: From where I was sitting, it was, we still want to do the experience. Yeah, we still want to do the ride. We still want to take everybody to Thailand. We still want to take everybody to Fiji. Money, had already gone, from a business perspective, that money was sitting in Thailand or sitting in hotels, or it was sitting in different places. What could we do to continue to support those companies and those properties, to ensure that they were going to stay open whilst all the borders closed? So from a business side of things that were definitely in the two sides, how did you feel in that moment where was like everybody was pulling back, what are we going to do? Was it the fear of, you know, this could be the end of Hands Across the Water, or what are we going to do to pivot in that moment? Was it. That was the big word, right? 20 word, pivot, pivot, and it was the other one was unprecedented, unprecedented times, and we've got a pivot. So how did you feel in that moment, sitting on the other side of things where money was just being retracted?

Claire: Yeah? Well, we, I mean, as I said, I flew, I flew back in, and we just bunkered down and just went, right, what? What do we need to do? And, you know, initially, and I remember conversations with Dale as well, where we're going, that's fine, September. And, you know, there was this, like, real positivity about it, because we just went, Oh, this is just little glitch.

Ros: I know I was thinking this was, this was just a small health crisis. It'll be four weeks and it'll be over and we'll move on. It was like bird flu or something. It didn't even feel as though it was going to be big. No, that it was a lot bigger.

Claire: It was a lot bigger. And, you know, I think you sort of get get through those first couple of months and, you know, okay, this, you know, things aren't changing here. What do we need to do? And it was during that period that we so we sat down with our board and we said, Okay, here's the lay of the land. This is where we're at. We've lost 75% of our fundraising Wow, we were generating like we were doing virtual events. We did a virtual big night in we did a virtual bike ride, you know, raised over 300,000 Yes, it's amazing. It was such a great experience.

Ros: It felt as though we were able to just still be a part of it.

Claire: Yes, yeah. And, you know, we wanted to try and still bring Thailand to to the people and so, you know, these were all great experiences, but we knew that we had to think beyond that first 12 months and go, Okay, we're in a really vulnerable position here, because we're we've lost all of our fundraising. And if someone something like this was to happen again. What's our backup plan? Yeah, we were very fortunate in that we had two years operating costs banked, thank goodness. And that was the advice of one of our board members who for many years had said, just make sure you got a rainy day account. And so we were very strong in particular in making sure that that happened. So, so that was a great thing, but it also like with that, I guess, vulnerability. We went, Well, how do we, how do we future proof our business? And that's where we looked at moving our operations into Thailand. And we said, you know, currently, everything relies upon Australia. The borders close, and all of a sudden, all of our donors can't get to time. And so they, if they can't get to time, they can't do a bike ride. And then, like the the knock on effect of that is, is huge.

Ros: And one of the biggest parts of raising money, raising money, those experiences,

Claire: Yeah, 100% and, you know, we tried to run those experiences in Australia, and we just don't get the uptake. Because people want to go like you with Cambodia and Vietnam. Want to go and explore another country on a bike, yeah? Who wants to ride in Australia that I get abuse?

Ros: Yeah, that's right. Get off the road. You're not supposed to be here. Absolutely. It's a totally different culture here.

Claire: I am. I much prefer riding in Thailand.

Ros: Yes, you both walking across the road in time.

Claire: But you know, I think it was, it was that realization of, okay, how do we build up in Thailand? And, you know, we knew from the rides that we ran here that we could run bike rides. Yeah, so we had, you know, picked up enough knowledge and skills, and, you know, my background in events, Pete's, you know, been riding for years and years, and so we went, what if we set up our own cycling company? Yes, and that company would not only run and facilitate our charity rides, but could facilitate other charity rides and a day to a business and and so it started to sort of Cascade where we went. Maybe our focus needs to be up in Thailand. We had just received our charity status for the foundation in Thailand, so it meant that we were now able to operate as a foundation receive donations in Thailand. That tax deductible. And so we looked at that model and said, right, well, let's create the same model we have here in Australia, where we have a social enterprise that sits next to the charity that undertakes commercial activity to then create so that then pays for our administration, our fundraising costs, and allows the charity dollar to go directly to the kids. So, it, you know, it was one of those moments. It was that light bulb moment, and then within weeks, we're like, why don't you think of this earlier? Like, this is brilliant.

Ros: Hindsight, right?

Claire: Hindsight. We needed a global pandemic to throw us into this. Like, what are you going to do? Because it challenged everything that we'd been doing to that point. And, you know, I sit here now, and I think it's the best decision, and the best thing to have come out of COVID was that that move into Thailand,

Ros: Yeah, and the support that you are able to still get from the riders, the money is going straight back into the charity.

Claire: Absolutely.

Ros: So from a business perspective, how do you how do you look at that now, because with the 75% of funding just disappearing during the pandemic, and operations couldn't be sustained there due to the border closures, thinking differently, reaching out to the board, and I mean, you're very, I think, fortunate to be able to be surrounded as well by so many people in business that I I look up to, and I'm sure you do as well. And go, wow, how lucky are we to be able to have all of these great minds. Go, what about this idea? Yeah, have you thought of this and and you're the one though that then implements, yeah, all of these things. So as the the CEO thinking about the vision of Hands Across the Water and the impact that it has on the ground in Thailand and towards the future, what's it like for you? I know you have a huge heart. What's it like for you to lead a purpose driven organization like that, day to day?

Claire:Yeah.

Ros: Like, it's it you said that. You said that it was the bigger picture, like leaving the corporate world and yeah, you know, your events role to now, transitioning into the role that you have. We're talking earlier about team, a large team that you also take care of. How does that? How does that affect you now? Or, how does that impact you? And do you feel as though it is that heart centered role that you've always lived for?

Claire: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I, when I think about, I don't think I've ever felt, you know, that concept of purpose as much as as I have, you know, working for Hands. And you know, it was really cemented for me when and it was coming off the back of COVID. And, you know, you go through a normal year, and Pete and I will be in Thailand, you know, between six and 12 times a year, you know. So we're connecting with the kids where, you know, we're seeing the results of our work. And so that's the reason you get up each day. And when that's taken away from you, becomes very hard to to keep, keep the wheels turning, because it is hard work. You know, you don't have the resource capabilities of large corporates. You know, you are CEO, but you're also it, marketing, HR, finance, like you are everything. And, you know, I think being able to come back to the reason why we do what I do, it's the opportunities we're creating for our kids. You know, it's an who's a girl who grew up in our home and is now working for us through Hands Experiences Thailand. It's, you know, those kids that we've been able to, I guess, create a brighter future, empower them to, you know, to be their best selves. They're the reason I get out of bed and, and that's, yeah, that that's the heart.

Ros: That's the heart. The the other side of this is travel. And what you do, you're, you're not selling travel, necessarily so as a Travel Advisor, and then what we do as part of Travel Agent Achievers, is we are curating and putting together experiences for our clients to explore this incredible plant. We live on all over the place. You're not necessarily putting together the flights and the those things from a travel perspective. So not necessarily a Travel Advisor, but what you are doing is creating these immersive and you're designing these experiences that connect people with a mission. So this is one thing that I also feel travel advisors, we're being asked to do more of today. The human connection, bringing people together. What can humans or what can we do as travelers to actually give back? So can you tell us a little bit about what Hands experiences is now, and how is travel advisors. I mean, how can we get involved? How can we bring more people to Hands Across the Water, to join experiences you have?

Claire: Yeah, so look, Hands experiences. Thailand was the company that we set up, and initially that was to create that sustainable income and cycling day tours and you know, charity rides. But I think, you know, as I look to the future for that business, I think it goes beyond just cycling, and it is about creating experiences where people can have a connection to what we're doing at Hands, and whether that's just by, you know, joining a bicycle detour and being able to see some of the kids that that we support, knowing that the profits from that go straight into our foundation, or whether it's curating something that, you know, I think at the heart of what we do at Hands is we we connect People in a way that not everybody can do, yeah, you know, I think we've got a beautiful model with our bike rides, you know, and we see it on all of our bike rides, whether it's a, you know, five day or an eight day ride, you come on those and you know, within two or three days, you're the experience you're having is something that you've never experienced before. And, you know, I can't say what the magic ingredient is, but it's, there's just something about it that just connects people on a on a deeper level.

Ros: I think it's part of the it's the stories behind it and a shared experience. Yeah, you know, everybody goes through the same pain, day in and day out, but also understanding the reason why each and every person does it, and some do it for different reasons. Some are, some are there for the kids. Some are there for their personal health journeys. You know, everybody is doing something different to to get through, yeah, but I do think that it's bringing people together, and that's one of the things that I love about the Hands Experiences and what people can do. But there is also the business side of things, with Hands Experiences and with your background in events and putting these together. There has to be some sort of system or process. And as travel advisors, and for me, I have a 67 steps to processing and travel booking. Every single client goes through the same experience, yeah. And as travel advisors, if we miss a deposit payment, if we miss ticketing a flight, if we miss one key part of that curation, it can impact somebody else's experience. So do you have systems and processes as part of Hands Experiences? Rinse and repeat each time.

Claire: Yeah, look, we've got, I've got an incredible team in the Philippines, who, they take care of all of our all of our rides, and have done for many years. We've now got so with our Hands Experiences team. They're now two years in, and, you know, really creating their own systems.
And, you know, I think when I look at, I guess, what we're creating at the moment, you know, we've, we've only got a, you know, two or three products, so it's so it's very systemized, and has been for a long time. But as we start to, I guess, expand the offering and create different, different experiences. I think the, the biggest part is, is just understanding what, what are our key moments? How do we, how do we connect people on a level, and then, how do we then build that experience around it, so to be able to scale it as well from a size perspective.

Ros: But still keep it personal?

Claire: Yes, yes.

Ros: So do you think that's one of the challenges that you're currently facing, or you're thinking about could happen, or you've already surpassed it?

Claire: Yeah, like it's, it's just knowing where to focus our attention. You know, at the moment, we've got a team of got a team of four full time staff up there, and that's made up of a tour guide, a general manager, a mechanic and a business development manager. And you know, they're very new to this business, just as, just as we are setting up a tourism business. And so, you know, it's, it's, who do you talk to first? Where do you go? It's setting up a new business. I mean, how do you, whilst we've got a solid base with our charity rides coming from Australia, how does that? How do we create a model where that is just the cream on top, where we've got this model that's ticking over in Thailand, we've got people coming in, you know, who aren't just coming in.
Because of a charity bike ride. They're coming in because they want to have, yeah, a day tour experience.

Ros: And explore a particular city,

Claire: Yeah.

Ros: You know, do different things, yeah, who knows?

Claire: So we're very much in startup mode still.

Ros: This is exciting. It's exciting.

Claire: It's a lot.

Ros: It is a it is a lot, and there is so much to learn. Yeah, and the travel and tourism industry is a beast upon it. Myself, navigating all of the different processes and who's involved, and what associations do you need to be part of, and what insurances do you need? And that's a really big key part of what you're also doing, yes, making sure that everybody's safe. And have they they got the right insurances themselves to participate in certain activities. Yeah, and there's a lot of liability that comes with it, so I can only imagine what you're thinking at the moment with all of the parts.

Claire: And add the puzzle flexibility of Thailand to the mix,

Ros: I mean, and foreign language for you, the paperwork and paperwork,

Claire: everything's just back to you got to sign it. You have to physically sign things. And, yeah, there's a lot from a red tag, I guess cultural, yeah, yeah, that's, that's very different.

Ros: So for a Travel Advisor who has potentially seen, you know, Pete speak, and I know he's spoken at a number of travel conferences, both in Australia and internationally as well, it is, you know, a charity that is is quite close to a number of us because of what initially happened, yes, with Bali, but also in in Thailand. And I remember having clients who who were in the region at the time when it happened. Yeah, Christmas Australian love to travel to Thailand. It's one of those places to go. So there are very few people that I know in the industry that have not had some sort of connection to the tsunami, and then now having the opportunity to be involved in determining Hands Across the Water. How can travel advisors, you know, get involved with Hands Across the Water? Do you see, or is there opportunities that we can help promote the experiences or get the word out there to get involved in bike rides.

Claire: Yeah, look, and, you know, I think bike rides is, is the natural sort of progression. And you know, whether you're taking a group over who want to do their own bespoke bike ride, or whether they're wanting to build a bike ride in as part of a bigger program. You know, there's definitely opportunity there. You know, I'm working with a client at the moment who, you know, they're looking at a conference in Cal act, and they're wanting to incorporate the bike ride. They also want to purchase their conference bags from our craft shop, so it creates this, like really beautiful connection moment for people. By, you know, we can, we can support, not only with the bike ride, but with those different experiences. Another, another option there. So Pete recently did a the travel, the travel event, and, you know, they did a bike build for kids. So, you know, the client said, we want to be able to, we want to do an activity at the event. It's half day event. What can you do for us? And and our team, from Hands Experiences, created this bike build program. So we had about 100 delegates in there building bikes, not knowing that the doors would open and the kids would run in and collect those bikes. But it was, you know, again, it just comes back to those, those real, raw, emotional, shared experiences. And you know, it's not, we don't exploit the kids. We don't, you know, on show. It's like, it's a genuine connection and a genuine feel good activity, so we can create anything, you know, like that that creates that nice, solid connection.

Ros: Yeah, human connection is something that we, all, we all need in this world, yeah. Certainly felt the impact of following the pandemic, to be able to, you know, spend time together and travel and experience these things, but also be able to give back, yeah, as well, yeah. So from a business perspective, Claire, what is something that you feel as though you're always working on?

Claire: I think at Hands, we're always working on what's next, and it's always like our, I guess our true north is, how do we create bright futures for our kids? And you know it, if I think back to like 2017 it was all about the kids going to. University, and that's the stage of life that we're at.

Ros: Was that also the vision of Hands at that point?

Claire: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. But as these kids started to finish university and go on to find jobs like for us, it became, oh, gosh, we haven't thought about what's next, and then what's next? Yes. And how do we, you know, how do we ensure they have those education opportunities, but then the future pathways. And you know, so a lot of what we're doing now at Hands is, yes, we cover the operating costs and everything's taken care of there, but it's now going well, what business models can we create that not only create employment opportunities for our kids, but also create revenue streams for foundations. Yeah, so as as I said earlier, how we're moving everything up into Thailand, like, if we've got Hands Experiences Thailand, which is a tourism company, you know, we've got Anne, who works for us, who grew up in our home, is now a registered tour guide. We've got Tau, who's currently a home hug about to start with Hands Experiences as a mechanic. So it's creating these pathways. And so, you know, if I think about what's next and what we're focused on, it's just always, what else can we do? What else can we do then, to give these kids.

Ros: To break it down, to say, well, this is the vision, and this is the direction that we're going in as the CEO, bring the team along, because you do have quite a large team as well that support you in that vision, to say, well, we've broken it down, and for the next 90 days, we're focused on this, and this is the goal of the year that we want to work towards. Do you? Do you do that sort of work with your team as well, from a strategy down into the action plan?

Claire: Yeah, definitely, probably not as processed-driven as I'd like it to be. And I think the biggest challenge there is the cultural differences. Yes, so working across, I mean, we've got a team in the Philippines, a team in Thailand, very different working styles. And so, you know, I think, if I think about my role as a CEO, it's it is challenging to try and manage that and to, I guess, motivate people in a way that drives them individually. Sure, we take them on the journey. And, you know, everybody is so connected with what we do at Hands. But in terms of having that sort of blanket, this is how we do our 90 day plan, yes, it's very hard to just the three countries, very hard,

Ros: Yeah, and to keep everybody on the page. And then do you also find that, you know, Pete or the Board of Directors might come in and say, Hey, this is a new idea. And then you feel as though you need to put it in its place and say, well, that needs to be parked, or we love that idea for later, and shuffle things around. Are you feeling as though, from a strategy point of view. You're constantly looking at all of the pieces of the puzzle as well?

Claire: Yeah. So I always joke that, you know, Pete will will be having a dinner table conversation, and Pete's like, let's do this. And I'm like, okay, so how we I go into events mode, right? I'm like, Okay, what's the break? What's the objective? How, how much is this going to cost? Where are we going to get? Going to get the money from? And Pete's like, Yeah, but can't we just launch it? Yeah? Why it's doing? Not yet, not yet. So, so yes, the ideas come rolling in
and and more often than not, like, you know, we, we will make things happen. I think, you know, there is, it's challenging being husband and wife business, you know, as as, as a lot of people would know, but it's, it's also rewarding when he can sit there, and, I guess, solve the world problems and and, you know, create these amazing opportunities.

Ros: So, yeah, do you ever take time out to reflect on how far you've also come?

Claire: We don't do that well. We don't do that well at all because we're just constantly on to bank seat.

Ros: Yeah, that's interesting to hear. I know somebody else in this room that does exactly the same thing. I can totally relate, and I know, being in partnership, you know, with your your loved one and your spouse as well, to in business, particularly, sometimes it just doesn't switch off.

Claire: No.

Ros: I often get in trouble at our wedding anniversary, because we'll go out to dinner and then I'll without a notepad, go right, what's next? About it, but I (I'm thank you for sharing that), but I don't get lost a lot. Now, you're not alone, you're not alone, but we need to just continuously move forward. I get it. I absolutely get it. Well, Claire, thank you so much for sharing a bit of behind the scenes and some insights into your role and how it's all come about, and what direction is now for what you're doing with Hands Experiences. And I know that from a travel perspective, there are so many of us out there that are cheering you on and absolutely love the work that you do. And thank you know are able to just get a get bit of a glimpse and support you wherever we can. And thank you.

Claire: Amazing. Thank you so much.